Monday, September 13, 2010

Tea-Baggers Aren't the Only Ones with Guns

Talking Points Memo has a slide show from yesterday's 2nd Annual 9/12 Rally in Washington, D.C. (h/t Greenlee Gazette)

Notice signs in the first couple pictures. Slogans include "Rebellion to Tyrants Is Obedience to God" (a quote from Thomas Jefferson) and "By Ballot or Bullet Restoration Is Coming."

I don't for a minute think that these sign-holders have any real intention of taking up arms if they don't like the election results in November.  The rhetoric is meant to intimidate, because they assume that only right-leaning folks believe in exercising their 2nd Amendment rights, and that liberals are all anti-gunners.

I do know a lot of people on the left who have a visceral hatred and fear of guns. They seem to believe that keeping a gun in the house is inherently evil and dangerous.  However, that feeling is far from universal, even among my lefty friends. Dane County Executive Kathleen Falk and Madison Mayor Dave Cieslewicz are both known to be deer hunters (which means they each own at least one rifle and know how to use it). I grew up in a house full of guns and was taught early on to respect them and never treat them as toys (or assume one is unloaded).

I believe that liberals would all be better off if we would make more of an effort to make everyone comfortable and responsible around guns. Abstinence-only firearms education does not work, in my opinion.  It certainly won't protect your children from guns in their friends' houses.

I've honestly lost count of the number of guns in our house right now (they are mostly my husband's). I know I am not the only left-leaning Madisonian who has guns and knows how to use them.  The Tea-bagger fringe (a tiny minority of those at the rallies, but the most colorful for the media to photograph) who hold up signs with vaguely-threatening firearms metaphors are unlikely to actually take up arms against their democratically-elected government. But if they do, I'll be exercising my own 2nd Amendment rights in defense of my home and homeland and in support of our lawful government. And I doubt I'll be alone.


NLW said...

You might like this: If Our Historic Heroes Returned as Tea Party Members"Mr. Gorbachev, scream at this wall!”

Deekaman said...

Y'all clearly don't understand the movement. But you don't want to, so I guess it's ok. We will eradicate the Left....via the vote.

Thanks for the epithet, BTW. Of all the lefties, I expected better from you.

James L. Greenlee said...

Thanks for the shout-out! Hey, I'm a liberal, and I'm not anti-gun. I was raised around them, and taught how to use (and not use) them. I don't have any guns, but am not opposed to them.

I am, however, leery of people who fetishize guns, those who act as though the only important amendment in the bill of rights is the 2nd, and who make signs like THAT guy did.

sofa said...

If King George was a homophobe, he would have used the phrase "tea-bagger" as well.

Torries don't get it.
They defend tyranny, when it has made itself repugnant to the Constitution.

It turns out that "...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
-T. Jefferson, et al

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
— George Washington

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."
- Thomas Jefferson

“A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.”
-Edward Abbey

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and our interests."
- Patrick Henry

"Laws repugnant to the Constitution are Null and Void."
— SCOTUS Chief Justice John Marshall, Marbury v. Madison, 1803

“Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal.”
– Martin Luther King Jr.

“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.”
- John Locke

"A free people claim their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate."
- Thomas Jefferson

"We are not to expect to be translated from despotism to liberty in a featherbed."
- Thomas Jefferson

“If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace.”
– Thomas Paine


Tyranny is repugnant to the Constitution. This hijacking of America will be stopped.

Those of you who stand in opposition to the Constitution and natural law should familiarize yourself with the founding documents and the philosphy which they gave us as their legacy. America is a great idea. Familiarize yourselves with it.

We created the Constitution to limit
When that document is ignored through lawfare, we the people are charged with the responsibility of restoring the original intent.

Sic Semper Tyrannis.

sofa said...
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Ordinary Jill said...

sofa, the constitution has been amended over the years to allow greater powers for the federal government (like an income tax, for instance). The reality of the Civil War also established greater powers for the federal government. You may not like it, but it is the system we have. I agree that the founders believed in the right to overthrow a tyrannical government, and I do not disagree with that right. However, the majority of Americans do not believe our current system is tyrannical. A handful of disgruntled people do not have the right to impose revolution on the rest of us. By all means, exercise your political rights and attempt to persuade the rest of us through peaceful means. I'm simply not impressed by the gun metaphors used by the Tea-bagger fringe.

And Deekaman, I do not use the word "Tea-bagger" for the majority of the Tea Party movement. I made a point of saying that the ones with gun signs are on the fringe, the minority at the rallies but the ones sought out by photographers. If you think this post was aimed at the whole movement, you have misunderstood it. I disagree with your Ayn Rand attitudes (Ron Johnson has shown us how hypocritical Ayn Rand followers can be), but you have the right to voice your opinions. The "gather your armies" ad in Alabama, however, was just silly. That sort of thing undermines the movement's credibility. If you can't see that, you will frequently misunderstand my posts.

Tim Morrissey said...

As in your case, my father trained me in firearms use and respect. And yes, he also taught me the concept that a gun is always loaded.

My home is in an area where it would take police at least five minutes to respond to a 9-1-1 call. Hence, the M-1 Carbine and ammo are kept available.

The other weapons are locked in a gun safe.

And I don't feel I have to defend my "liberal-independent" credentials to any gun-hater, nor to any tea-party member.

Good post.

sofa said...

Torries talked about 'the fringe' as well. Keep misunderstanding.

My side has the founder's philosophy and intent.
Your side has Marx's philosophy and intent.

My side ("liberals") celebrate the individual, and embraces liberty, and western civilization.
Your side ("collectivists") embraces mass murdering tyranies of violence like islam, Mao, Castro, Chavez, Che, Mengistu, Mugabe, Pol Pot, and Stalin.

Call it a difference of opinion.

sofa said...

regarding the "fringe" ...

"Eighty-one percent of those polled say the country is on the wrong track, while only 14 percent believe it is heading in the right direction."
-CBS poll

Interesting that 14% of colonists took up arms for the King against the Americans.

Historically then, 14% is "the Fringe".

Sic Semper Tyrannis

Tyrants and Torries always have a different opinion.

sofa said...

"...the constitution has been amended over the years to allow greater powers for the federal government (like an income tax, for instance). The reality of the Civil War also established greater powers for the federal government. You may not like it, but it is the system we have."

Is that the same reasoning the Quislings used during WW2?

“Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal.”
– Martin Luther King Jr.

Everything Mao and Stalin did was legal too. By laws they put in place.

Lawfare against the people doesn't make it right. It just lets tyrants wrap themselves in the law.

John Marshall saw the same problem, and he corrected it:

"Laws repugnant to the Constitution are Null and Void."
— SCOTUS Chief Justice John Marshall, Marbury v. Madison, 1803


Your continued support of tyranny is interesting. I've heard about fringe ultra right-wing tyrants before, but never ran across one until now.

sofa said...
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sofa said...

Interesting discussion.

When I was in Spain years ago, I saw an old man with a beanie sitting outside a cafe; but he had no coffee. I walked up and asked him if he was a socialist, and he said he was. I asked him if I could buy him some coffee in exchange for a discussion. He agreed. And it was a wonderful afternoon, to truly see what he thought about the world, people, and America.

When I was in Cuba, I saw a man sitting ata cafe; but he had no coffee. I asked if I could buy him coffe in exchange for a discussion. Another great day!

When I was in Egypt, I bought a man coffee...

When I was in Moscow, I bought a man coffee...

Do you have a cup of coffee?

Tell me more...

Deekaman said...

So, Jill...if I use a racial epithet toward the more fringe elements of say, Black society, you are ok with that, right? Like New Black Panthers. I can call them...? You can't be serious.

James L. Greenlee said...

I use "tea baggers" because a) it's funny, b) it torques them off, and c) because they used the term first--intending it to be offensive--and had it turned back against them.

"Tea Bag the Dems Before They Tea Bag You!" was an early sign at a rally with a endorsement. The turnabout of the insult is the key here. Plus, tea partiers nearly unanimously call the Democratic Party the "Democrat" Party. Maybe when they stop doing that, I'll stop calling them tea baggers. But probably not.

Deekaman said...

@James: Good "tolerance" you have there. Call us all the names you want. We don't care any more. I just wanted to make sure to call all of you out for your hypocrisy.

James L. Greenlee said...

Whatever, Deekaman. I'd pay the tea PARTIERS some respect if they deserved any. And there is no high ground for them to claim. They clearly wanted to use "tea bag" as an insult, and it backfired.

It will be interesting to see if the tea party will heed Glenn (tea party "outsider" HA!) Beck's call for them to stop dressing outrageously, and stop holding provocative signs. If they do, I predict that the TV cameras will suddenly stop finding them interesting.

sofa said...


The reasoning of the 'Tea Party' is ignored by you and others. You focus on signs and clothing. How about the points they are bringing up?

When you cannot fight their arguments- Resort to name calling.

You are acknowledging defeat in the arena of ideas.